Source: Government of Qatar
Børge Brende: Mr. Prime Minister, Sheikh Mohammed Al Thani, for many of us, one of the highlights of our annual meeting is the discussion with you on the state of the world and the state of the Middle East. So, is the state of the world better this year than last year? Or is it like, worse than last year and better than next year?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, if I put it maybe in a better way, I think it’s more complicated. And look, I think the whole world is going through a pivotal moment right now. And we have seen the pace of the changes that we’ve been going through is really accelerating in an unprecedented way. And it’s a moment where we need really to have—to be more cool-headed and to think about what’s going on and trying to figure out a way how to navigate this turmoil in a way that makes us stronger, more resilient, and also wiser in the way how we address our problems and our conflicts. If we look at, you know, how the world was working since World War II, there was a world order, there was a system that’s been working for decades. In the past couple of decades, there has been like drastic change in this world order in many events, in many occasions, that those checks and balances that we used to have, they are not there anymore. And these changes have been happening to us like throughout these years, but we were not noticing it because of the time difference between them, and they are not really at a very fast pace. But the last couple of years, I mean, and this year, we have seen there is an acceleration of that. So everyone is noticing that there is something happening. But this is the system that’s been needs a lot of reforms that we didn’t look at for the past two decades.
Børge Brende: If you look at the Middle East and the Gulf region, you could have had almost a full-fledged war with Iran that did not escalate. You have a new president in Syria. You have a new government in Lebanon. You have an unsolved challenge in Yemen. And you also have the situation in Gaza. What would you say is the biggest worry for you in the Middle East this coming year? And where are you most optimistic? With the exception, of course, the economy in Qatar is going really, really well. So we will come back to that.
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, thank you very much. Look, I mean, there are a lot of good things that happened last year that, you know, has been more positive to our region than negative. And I cannot deny that, as you mentioned, Syria, we have a president; in Lebanon, we have a new government. And, you know, there is, let’s say, the war in Gaza almost stopped, but there are still, unfortunately, we see the killing continuing. But it’s in a better place than it used to be. But it doesn’t mean that, you know, the situation is already stable in the region or moving toward stabilization. It’s until now there is a lot of uncertainty on what’s going on. And what’s worrying me really is, you know, the growing tension that’s happening within this region, whether it’s, you know, the remedies of Gaza war or what’s happening with Iran and, you know, any other fronts in the region can at any moment can explode if we don’t address it and think carefully about how can we look at our regional security architecture and come as a region together and start rebuilding the confidence among each other. Look, every country in our region needs to protect itself. I mean, and they have the right to protect itself because, you know, they don’t reach to that conclusion unless they feel threatened and there is something that triggers this sense of insecurity. I think we need to address those root causes. And the moment has come for the region to come together and to think about how can we reshape our security architecture. At least we ensure that we are not representing a threat for each other.
Børge Brende: So, we know that President Trump will on Thursday launch the “Board of Peace,” the second phase of the Gaza stabilization. What are your thoughts on this?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, look, reaching the ceasefire deal itself was a great breakthrough that we had, of course…
Børge Brende: And congratulations to Qatar under your leadership, Egypt, and the US.
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Thank you very much. Regarding that, I believe that what we have been through has taught us a lot of lessons. And I believe that the Board of Peace is presenting a path. And President Trump has proposed this path to move forward. Now, you know, the first stage of the deal being implemented doesn’t mean that the deal is done. We have a lot of work to be done right now. And I think that all the countries who are joining this Board of Peace need to work hard and to make sure that this Board of Peace is functioning in a way that serves the purpose and become a stabilizing factor…
Børge Brende: And Qatar is on the board?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Yes, we were invited to that board. Of course, we are happy to be a contributor to peace and stability in our region. Now, there are a lot of challenges in the implementation, but we have no alternative paths to seek right now. I think that the most important thing right now is to ensure that Gaza is stabilized, we ensure that the withdrawal of the Israeli forces happening as soon as possible, and ensure that the people can get their life back as soon as possible. That should be the key focus for the Board of Peace.
Børge Brende: I just read that half of Gaza is still controlled by the Israelis and half of Hamas. Is that an accurate assessment or wrong?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: It is actually… I think it’s even more than a half still under the control of the Israeli forces. There was an agreement, you know, which defined a “Yellow Line” at that time for the first stage of the withdrawal. Unfortunately, this Yellow Line wasn’t respected as it used to be in the map. More than 50% is being already set as a parameter for the Israeli forces. And unfortunately, beyond this parameter is creating a lot of tension points where, you know, it triggers from time to time live fire, killing of the people. And basically, these events that’s happening every day, the killing is just continuing. We have a ceasefire, yes, but it’s not really like, you know, a complete ceasefire where everything is peaceful. We are still facing those challenges, and we need to make sure that the Israeli forces go back and commit to the withdrawal in order to diffuse those tension points.
Børge Brende: The humanitarian situation, is it better or the same?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: If you compare it to last year, it may be better, but it’s still like it needs a lot of intervention. Still a lot of humanitarian aid is not allowed to enter because of dual-use materials and other restrictions. And we need to have unrestricted access for humanitarian aid for the people. Shelters are still missed there, and they need a lot. But we are working together very closely with our colleagues in the United States, Egypt, and Turkey in order to ensure that there is a mechanism that supports the technocratic government that’s been just established for Gaza in order to enable them to help the people and to deliver a better life for the people.
Børge Brende: So maybe then go a little bit east. What do you think is the most likely scenario for Iran in a year’s time?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, I cannot predict scenarios about countries. I think that, you know, what I just mentioned to you is very important. The region is going through a lot of tensions. And of course, we cannot exclude what’s happening in Iran and with Iran from these tensions in the region. And I believe that, you know, with all this turmoil around us, we need to be more cool-headed and resort to wisdom. And I think that there are a lot of ways to find solutions that can address the problems and address the issues and provide us with the security assurances that brings us and the Iranian people prosperity in the future. And that’s what we are aiming for. We always believe that there is a room of diplomacy, and that’s been our approach in the State of Qatar. And we will always keep advocating for peaceful resolution. We need to understand that any escalation will have a consequence. This been tried in Iraq 20 years ago and didn’t work. I mean, until now, Iraq and the region is bearing the consequences of that.
Børge Brende: And the Americans will probably argue that that’s what they have learned from Iraq and Venezuela?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, look, I think, you know, I don’t speak on behalf of the US, but we are in a continuous dialogue with them. And I believe the US administration has been always engaging positively when it comes to attempts for finding a diplomatic solution. And I believe President Trump, he’s a man of a deal. And he’s the one who has helped us to put the whole deal together for Gaza and to get us through the finish line. And I think on the situation of Iran is not… it’s not really difficult. It needs, you know, like a multiple approach to address, of course, the nuclear issue, and then the regional security issue. This is something that needs to be discussed among the region itself.
Børge Brende: But you know, Iran is also more vulnerable than it used to be in the sense that when Hezbollah was stronger in Lebanon, Hamas also in Gaza, and Assad was in charge in Damascus, they had also more leverage. But they still do have leverage in the sense that they do have hundreds of thousands of ballistic missiles. So what I read in the newspapers at least was that, you know, the whole Gulf—Saudi, UAE, and Qatar—was arguing with Americans not to attack Iran due to the uprisings and also the killings that happened in the streets. Is that correct?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: No, we didn’t actually. We are engaging with the Americans, with Iranians. We don’t want to see a military escalation in our region. Well, we didn’t argue with the American anything actually. We… what we offer as a partner, as an ally for United States is the honest advice about what’s going on. And our honest advice that the best way forward is to find a diplomatic solution for the nuclear problem. We don’t want to end up in a region that has a nuclear race. And we have seen how the world is shaking right now. I believe that there is an opportunity, and it is the right moment for us as a region to come together and to make sure that we understand each other grievances, we understand each other concerns. We make sure that everyone feel safe and feel protected. That includes the Iranians, that includes the Palestinians, and the Israelis. Everyone in the region.
Børge Brende: To move to another topic but still in the region, we will have the Syrian President in Davos for the first time ever in the history. There are things happening there. So let’s see, you know, how that is unfolding. But on Syria, I think Qatar has been clear that this is progress. I think also Saudi Arabia has been of the same view. If you look at where Syria stands now and the perspectives, are you… how do you see the opportunities for the President to bring the country together, deal with different groups, the support? Or are you worried that this also not will work out?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, first of all, I think that, you know, Syria has went already through a very difficult 15 years. And, you know, 15 years of such a turmoil and conflicts will always have its consequences. And we know that it’s not easy to come to a country after a civil war and to start rebuild the institutions, rebuild the state, rebuild the systems. It’s a difficult job. And the Syrian government needs help and they’ve been asking for this help. All of us, we are trying to help them to reach to that stage. Now, there will be a lot of challenges, we know. But at the end of the day, Syria… the beauty of Syria is this diversity, this social fabric of Syria that has been there for centuries, not something new. And I believe that everyone in Syria wants to see one Syria, stable Syria, wants to ensure that they are treated equally and their rights are protected. And it’s their right. And I believe that our contribution as a region or as an international community to Syria is to help them to build their state, to build their institutions, to build this inclusive system that includes everybody. But you cannot have it… you cannot build a state without building proper institutional system that includes everybody.
Børge Brende: And is that being done now? You see that architecture being constructed?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: We see that there are some progress. We see that it has a lot of challenges down the road. But we have to make sure that also we are providing them with the right help for this.
Børge Brende: If you go a little bit east again, you have Iraq. And a country that can produce millions of barrels of oil per day. Why is it so still so poor?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, Iraq is not poor, first of all. I think Iraq is already rich. It’s unfortunately, as I mentioned, this is the result of a military action. And that’s the consequences that the region has paid. And basically the… if we look back in the history, like there are a turning points for our region that happened to us that, you know, my generation when we grew up, we grew up [on] Iraq-Iran war, then Iraq invasion to Kuwait. And then like all the events building up in our region. But we believe that the turning moment for us in that region was Iraq invasion to Kuwait. That’s has been like the turning point for the entire region which put the entire region in a path of turmoil. Unfortunately, we couldn’t until now rescue it. And unfortunately, when you talk about Iraq today that has all these resources and it’s rich, but yet people think about it or look at it from the outside, they still think that it’s a poor country because there are a lot of people are still not, you know, not enjoying this wealth of the country. Which we believe is one of the results of polarization and division within the community because of the war. And that’s what we want Syria hopefully to avoid.
Børge Brende: And for Syria, unfortunately, they don’t have the same natural resources related to oil and gas as Iraq. But you’re so right. I think there is a lot of resources. Of course there’s still humanitarian situations in Iraq, but you know, I think there is also a lot of corruption in the country.
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: That’s… the, you know, corruption unfortunately is a plague that eating a lot of government unfortunately.
Børge Brende: Yemen. Do you want to talk about that?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, look, Yemen… our policy has been very clear from the beginning. We support the legitimacy there in Yemen. We support, you know, the right of the Yemenis to decide on their own future. And I believe that what has been achieved already many years ago in the National Dialogue was a good model for the Yemenis that everyone has embraced it. Unfortunately, it wasn’t implemented. And it led us to a situation where there are, you know, some groups feeling that separation is the solution and others, they don’t see it this way. I believe, you know, at the end of the day, it’s the call and the decision of the Yemeni people. But as a policy for the State of Qatar, we remain supporting the legitimacy. We would like to see Yemen staying united. And we would like to see the outcomes of the National Dialogue that all the Yemenis agreed to, to be implemented. And to see if this will satisfy the needs of the Yemeni people or not.
Børge Brende: So Qatar has done a lot in peace and reconciliation. Do you think there is any way in Yemen to also mainstream the Houthis and get them part of a plan for a future that is inclusive and stable?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, our perspective that you cannot exclude any part of any society. That Houthis or others, they are all part of this Yemeni social fabric. And they need to find a solution how they can coexist together. That’s why I go back to the outcome of the National Dialogue which actually addressed most of the concerns of each and every group in Yemen. I think that that is key for the stability of Yemen and for the future. And everyone can play a positive role. And stable Yemen means stable GCC, stable Gulf, stable Arabian Peninsula. And stable Arabian Peninsula means also stable region. And that’s… I always reiterate the importance of… this is the right moment for all of us to come together and to start talking very openly and candidly about our security concerns and try to put together a security architecture where we are feel really protected and safeguarded.
Børge Brende: We started the discussion, Prime Minister, with the geopolitics. And the geopolitics do look more complicated now than it did in Davos last year. We maybe didn’t think that was possible, but I think that’s a reality. But what is surprising is that, you know, IMF came out with their growth numbers yesterday or the day before, and now it’s 3.3% economic growth expected this year. So the economy is very, very resilient. And trade is growing. But, you know, what is fueling this is also the investments in the artificial intelligence. So how do you explain this? Why, you know, the global economy is so resilient and is has already kind of adapted to the new realities of geopolitics? Is like water, it finds its way?
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: It’s… It’s not… Okay, it adopts eventually, but it’s not right now. It’s not about the adaptation. It’s more about, uh, what, you know, the effects of of this geopolitical turmoil didn’t reach yet, uh, you know, those economic numbers that you are seeing until now. And I believe that any geopolitical complication globally that we are seeing today, we are going to see the effects and the consequences in maybe not today, but in a year or two time. Uh, yes, there is a big growth that’s happening in the technology and artificial intelligence that driving this global growth, but if you are going to look at across across sectors, there are areas which being affected because of this geopolitical situation.
Børge Brende: And, um, for Qatar, you know, we know you so well as the Foreign Minister, and you have been through different phases as Foreign Minister. Has not been the easiest job, but you done it so well that the Emir also made you Prime Minister. So you’re also in charge of the economy. And, you know, when we have the privilege to visit Doha and Qatar, we see so much development and investments. How do you, like, find your path now? Because UAE has its path, and Saudi Arabia has its path. Where do you see Qatar differentiating itself? And where will we see the economic growth coming in the years to come? I was at a meeting earlier today where Finance Minister Jadaan of Saudi Arabia said that now 56% of their economy is not based on oil. And that has happened in a decade under the leadership of the Crown Prince.
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Well, actually, look, I think that if you look at Qatar economy, there is a rapid growth that we see year on year. Now, we have registered growth this year around 2.9%. And we are expecting this growth to accelerate because of the expansion of the LNG, which will make our diversification job very more challenging because of the increase in the gas production.
Børge Brende: But it’s still a good thing.Also for the world.
It is. It is I guess.
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: It is It is I guess. It is actually. I think it’s an outstanding thing. And I believe that if you look at Qatar, Qatar is uniquely positioned when it comes to the energy and the supply of LNG, which will remain a base load that all this revolution that you see in the AI and technology will require to power, you know, their data centers and to power this compute that that they will need. So Qatar is at the center of this progress and development that’s happening. Second, our diversification agenda has been moving in the right direction. We are more than 60% now non-hydrocarbon GDP. And we are looking forward to grow it further. We see the numbers in foreign direct investments increasing in a very good progress. We see the inflation below 1% and managed with all this growth that’s ongoing. We believe that energy is our strength, is our power. We believe that diversification is our resilience. And we believe the technology is the future. Packaging all those together, I think Qatar have, you know, a great path forward. And I believe that what we are going to see in the next few years, you will see Qatar has been already very well known in establishing multinational companies and global brands like Qatar Airways or QNB or, you know… we have around 44 global brands that Qatar has invested in and established. And what we are looking for is really to double down on our National Champions and expand this number. So hopefully this year, you know, we will have some good news about some platforms to encourage this National Champions to be more globally… to be more global players.
Børge Brende: No, really impressive. You know, I would have loved to continue the conversation, but you know, we also have limited time. It’s always a great pleasure, Sheikh Mohammed, Prime Minister of Qatar, to both have you in Davos, but also to listen to your insights. So thank you very much.
Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani: Thank you.